Note: I updated this post every few minutes or so with highlights during August 14th's "Great Planet Debate" between Mark Sykes, director of the Planetary Science Institute, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson, director of the AMNH Hayden Planetarium. NPR's own Ira Flatow moderated the event.
A summary of my thoughts on the whole thing is at the end of this post.
5:44 p.m. ET - It's over -- and from Ira Flatow: "I'm sure this is not the last word!"
I think everyone would agree with that.
5:42 p.m. ET - Tyson: The more we learn about new things, the more we need to tune our vocabulary and way of thinking, otherwise we shut ourselves off from new discoveries. He says to schoolteachers: "Get the notion of counting things out of your system!" Just explore all the amazing things in the Solar System.
5:40 p.m. ET - Time for summary statements!
Sykes: Science in the classroom needs to get away from learning "promulgations of truth by an authority" and move toward understanding how science is a process, a debate, a conversation.
Tyson agrees.
5:37 p.m. ET - They asked my question (fromt he Internet): When you're not duking it out over planets, do you get along?
Tyson summarizes their friendly rivalry, including a storming of Tyson's office by the New York Times -- and Sykes, of course, with a faux strangulation photo.
Jokes aside, it looks like they do get along outside of the planet issue. Hmm.
5:34 p.m. ET - Tyson: Let's just use the words we want in scientific papers. The IAU will pick it up once the terms are used often enough.
Sykes: Science isn't done by vote.
5:31 p.m. ET - From the audience: "I'm David Morrison and I think you're both wrong!" Morrison, a senior scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, sez there is no consensus about anything, so we shouldn't be defining anything at all.
5:27 p.m. ET - Sykes: Mostly planetary scientists, a.k.a. geologists, made the famous IAU vote -- not astronomers. Astronomers would go against the IAU vote.
Tyson: You overrate how many people support you.
Question (actually more of a statement) from the audience: 96% of the IAU wasn't present for the vote. No absentee voting was allowed... so the IAU changes just caused more confusion. What's better?
5:25 p.m. ET - Tyson and Sykes BOTH agree that the IAU definitions are inadequate. Interesting!
They both just diverge on what's best for change.
Tyson: "The IAU is not some pope up on high" - they comb the scientific community to find prevailing trends, then define it.
5:23 p.m. ET - Tyson: "What pissed off the American public:" we just learned this mnemonic device with nine planets, "Now what am I gonna do?"
5:20 p.m. ET - Ok, Ira Flatow has cut off the heated exchanges between Tyson and Sykes -- it's question-and-answer time.
Question from the Internet: What qualifies as "round"?
Sykes: "The Captain Kirk Test" -- it's pretty obvious, he says. Tyson agrees.
5:17 p.m. ET - Tyson: Let's classify objects by group - they're more similar to each other than they are to anything else.
Sykes: "Wrong astronomy breath!" Ouch. Now he's talking about how Ceres, in the Asteroid Belt, is very dissimilar. It may be covered in clay and water (which is very unlike asteroids).
5:13 p.m. ET - Tyson: "I look forward to the day when (the lexicon lets me) talk about Earth and Titan in the same sentence."
5:10 p.m. ET - The debate is now shifting toward education.
Tyson: Memorizing planets isn't science. We need to revamp this whole educational approach.
Chemists don't worry about confusing the public - says their terms are like (demonstrates hand going into orifice) to the public, but no one complains. (Hehe.)
5:06 p.m. ET - Tyson: "I have peeps who were all together to help me figure this out," he says of the planet issue and his committee at the American Museum of Natural History to rework the Solar System exhibit. Grouped objects by type, not by planet.
Sykes: Wait, wasn't it called The Walk of the Planets?!
Tyson tries to duck, but Flatow says Sykes is correct. Ouch.
5:03 p.m. ET - Tyson accidentally punches Flatow while describing the origin of Pluto "really" being a planet -- oops! Never a good idea to slug a 'ref.
Tyson says it has a moon (Charon). But now we know, he says, that asteroids can have little moons, too...
4:58 p.m. ET - Sykes finally gets to jump back in and respond.
I am distracted at home by thunderstorms and a cat that is freaking out, so I miss the response. Damn.
4:56 p.m. ET - Tyson: The term "planet" was an obstruction to figuring out asteroids and the Asteroid Belt, but scientists got around it in 1801. Discovering Pluto is "deja vu!" Terms can give you "tunnel vision" and prevent discoveries. Calls this "one of the great tragedies of science."
4:53 p.m. ET - Tyson: "I've been polite up until now." Uh oh.
4:51 p.m. ET - Flatow asks "what about exoplanets?"
Tyson: We need to not be so darned Earth-centric. We should be able to apply our terms to bodies outside the Solar System.
Sykes: Agrees, but we need a generalizable set of terms. Like, um... planet. Major planet, minor planet...
4:45 p.m. ET - Tyson: Europeans really don't care too much about Pluto. Come to America? "It's my favorite planet!" Also jokes that Disney's Pluto the dog and the actual rocky/icy body discovered by Clyde Tombaugh have the same authority/importance to Americans.
4:43 p.m. ET - Another scuffle, and Sykes jokingly refers to the International Astronomical Union as "holy mother church IAU." Tyson says let's get rid of the word planet - it's not really useful anymore. Sykes responds: "That's why God invented subcategories."
Many chuckles heard.
4:39 p.m. ET - There's a bit of a back-and-forth with plenty of interruptions. Pretty funny. Sykes responds to IAU definition: "You have to get bigger, and bigger, and bigger" to be a planet the more toward the edge of the Solar System.
4:37 p.m. ET - Tyson: "We're in desperate need of a new lexicon" to describe the Solar System.
4:35 p.m. ET - Neil Tyson reveals to Ira Flatow the fact that Mark Sykes has a law degree. Wonder how handy that will come in at a time like this...
4:33 p.m. ET - Ira Flatow is introducing the reason for the debate. Just introduced Tyson and Sykes. Looks like Tyson got a haircut and shave since I met him Tuesday.
Mark Sykes still sporting a mighty beard.
4:25 p.m. ET - I'm listening to the Great Planet Debate via a live video Web stream. Some lady named Margaret is telling everyone to turn off their cell phones -- or she'll take them.
Scary. Glad I'm not there.
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Now that this bad boy is over, I'm feeling the itch to respond:
As a member of the public you don't often get to see, hear, or be a part of the intense conversations that actually lead to science. Don't get me wrong -- I highly doubt this one will result in a published paper or anything like that, but watching two well-informed scientists go at it (plus those from the audience) was fascinating.
Each and every person's argument sounded reasonable, logical, well-thought. In other words, they all sounded right. So what the heck are you supposed to think?
Aye, there's the rub of science -- it's a process!
At the end of the matchup, Ira Flatow said he doubted this would be the final world and, unless a rogue gamma ray burst vaporizes our planet's surface (and all the scientists chewing on the issue along with it) tomorrow, I'll have to agree.
I said in my previous post that I was leaning toward agreeing with Tyson's view of how the Solar System should be organized -- into classes of bodies and throwing out "planet" altogether. But after watching the Great Planet Debate, I have to say that I'm right back where I started: Uncertain.
So, my vote is to leave it up to the astronomers and planetary scientists on this one. What about you?
P.S. Ok, I'm still leaning towards Tyson's view just a little bit. Sorry Dr. Sykes!
Photos: Associated Press/American Museum of Natural History/Planetary Science Institute; Dave Mosher, Discovery Space

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