A petition urging Barack Obama to retain Mike Griffin as NASA's administrator has gathered more than 500 signatures and dozens of comments, pro and con. Scott Horowitz, a former astronaut who worked under Griffin as the head of the agency's new exploration initiative, explains why he launched the "Keep Mike" drive.
Why did you decide to start the petition and what do you hope to accomplish with it?
It’s no big secret we’re in the midst of a transition here and President-elect Obama is going to get to choose whether to keep the current administrator or choose another one because the NASA administrator serves at the pleasure of the president. I just wanted to make sure that since he has a decision to make that he has all the data available to make that decision.
When I was working at a fairly high-level decision-making capacity, one of the things I realized is that one of the hardest things about making a decision when you’re high up in the ranks is ‘Do you have all the data?’ So this is my attempt at collecting data that can be presented to President-elect Obama so that he can see what people think about the current administrator and that there is a lot of support out there and a lot of people do appreciate how good a job Mike has done as administrator. I for one, believe, he’s probably the best thing to happen to NASA in 30 years … So I wanted to see how many people felt the same and that’s what the petition is about.
People are trying to use it as a place to vent a bunch of different ideas and thoughts and that’s not what it’s about. It’s a petition for those who support Mike. I’m just collecting comments and signatures from people who support Mike Griffin as the NASA administrator. It’s really that simple.
Do you think it really matters who the administrator is?
Absolutely. I think it absolutely matters.
Why?
Everything rolls from the top on down. Give you an example: We had a set of requirements years ago for a program called OSP, Orbital Space Plane, and because the leadership at the time did not understand the problem they were trying to conquer, that program failed miserably. The requirements were poor. The concept that led to it … was so technically flawed that there was no hope or it ever, ever working.
NASA spent on the order of half a billion dollars trying to figure out how to put an X-37 (spacecraft) on a Delta 4 (rocket) and basically every review of it showed that it failed absolutely miserably and that it would never be safe and that it would never work very well. Nobody at the top knew how to request the right kind of a study and the right kind of analysis so they could make the right kind of decision on the program to move forward.
You know, you can have good administrative skills and be a good administrator from a managerial standpoint, but NASA is a very, very technical organization and the things we do are very technical -- flying a space shuttle, sending up all these incredible instruments on all these satellites to all these places. Being able to make decisions that affect everything throughout the organization with no technical knowledge, in my opinion, is impossible. You cannot manage that kind of organization without knowing. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist, but you’d better at least understand enough about it.
At this point, because we’re in a very huge transition, because we’re retiring the shuttle and building the next capability for probably the next 30 years if history serves us correctly -- we’re not going to build another system for another 30 years, at least -- you’d better have somebody who understands all the data that’s being studied and presented to them so they can make the right decisions.
Scott, the comments posted on NASA Watch run largely to the belief that retaining Griffin is a vote for the current hardware design for the new exploration initiative (to return to the moon and travel beyond). Do you think that it’s actually the hardware that’s so important, or is your petition really about Mike Griffin the man -- even if the Obama administration decided to delay or change or do something else with the architecture for the follow-on program?
Well, a couple of things. One, I’ve never read NASA Watch so I don’t know what’s on it, but I’ll assume that what you’re telling me is true. This petition is about Mike Griffin the man, about the administrator. We can have another whole discussion on what I believe about the hardware and the architecture (for the follow-on program) … There’s three things you need if you want to be successful. You need clear and concise and stable guidance from the top, which means from the president and Congress. You need sufficient budget -- and that’s another whole discussion -- which has caused most of the problems that NASA has. There’s been $12 billion in budget erosion over the last four years. And then you need good, technically sound, stable leadership. I’m only addressing the last point here and I think it’s absolutely critical that whatever NASA is asked to do, that they have somebody with the capabilities that Mike Griffin possesses to lead the agency. I have never met anybody who has the skill set that he does. I have been very impressed. He has changed the whole demeanor in NASA -- the fact that people can openly communicate and voice their views is great. There’s nobody who is as open and honest and has the ability to understand all the trades as Mike Griffin … If there’s nothing else you can appreciate about Mike is that he’s brutally honest. It’s nice to have that.
Maybe a little too much brutal sometimes?
Maybe. You know, I grew up in a world from being a fighter pilot and if you think this is brutal, you should go to a debrief after an engagement. You get really thick skin really fast or you don’t survive in that world. People just need to hear the truth. One of the great things I learned in my management career is that hope is not a management tool. Just because you hope something will work, or (think) this is a pretty design, doesn’t mean it’s going to work. Physics rules. If you don’t understand the rules of physics, you’re going to pay for it. Dearly.
Speaking of truth, could you briefly recount your career arc with ATK (which won a non-competed contract with NASA for the new launch system) and your ties with NASA?
I’ll tell you exactly what happened. And just to let you know, everything I do I always consult with the legal people just to avoid any appearance of, or any anything, that might be perceived of as a legal issue. I’m not doing anything to try to game the system.
I was in the Air Force and NASA for a total of about 25 years. I left NASA in 2004. My wife and I picked a place to raise our children and it happened to be in Utah. After I moved to Utah, because I was going to start a consulting business, I was offered a position with ATK and I took that position. That was the end of 2004.
In 2005, about 11 months later, I applied to and then received a request to become the NASA associate administrator for exploration. So, the first thing I had to do legally, you have to get rid of all of your holdings in a contractor company. Any financial connections with the company have to be severed: stock options, stock, anything. Legally, you have to give all that up, which I did. Went to DC and then actually legal has to go through and look at your background and decide what you can and cannot do. We decided even if it was legal for me to be, for example, the SSA, Source Selection Authority, that I would not be on any contracts at NASA for Constellation (exploration program), so I did not … and if it had anything to do with ATK, I was completely recused from anything to do with those selections. So I had no input into the selection of any contracts dealing with ATK to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest.
I served in that position at NASA for two years and then I decided that in order to take better care of my family, because that kind of position is not conducive to somebody with young children like I had, that I would retire from that position and start the consulting business that I wanted to start four years earlier. We moved back to the place where I still owned a townhome and my wife and I started my consulting business. I have probably about 15 different clients. ATK is one of my clients, but I am not an ATK employee and I do not represent ATK to NASA. I’ve been out of NASA for over a year, and I could, but I do not represent ATK to NASA, like I can’t represent ANY contractor to NASA and I don’t work directly on any contracts that I would have had any input into making, but I didn’t have any because I was recused in all dealings with ATK during my tenure as the AA of NASA. So that’s exactly the chain of events since I was a NASA employee back, in 2004.
Just to close the very last step, were you asked, or did the idea of the petition spring solely from you?
This was completely my idea. I didn’t even tell Mike. In fact, I think he was a bit flabbergasted when he saw it. I take all the credit, good or bad. This was my idea.
Just out of curiosity, who’d be your second choice for administrator?
I don’t have one. I’ve been asking myself that question and I don’t have a second choice … I’ve looked at a list of all the names that people have been floating out there and they’re so far distant second choice to Mike. I can’t think of anyone more qualified to run NASA at this time and I can’t even think of a second choice. Really, I just can’t think of one.
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