Criminal Profiler Pat Brown on the Carol Daniels Murder Case

September 02, 2009

Yesterday, I brought you the story of Carol Daniels, a 61-year-old pastor who was recently found dead inside her Anadarko, Okla., church. According to police, the victim died as a result of "multiple sharp force injuries." It was also discovered that several wounds had been inflicted post-mortem – after she died. Perhaps most shocking of all, police say the killer had posed the victim's body in a "crucifix position." Hearing all these details might lead you to believe that there is much to interpret from the crime. However, according to Pat Brown, a well-known investigative criminal profiler, that may not be the case.

"It looks like [we have] a lot of information, but it actually leaves me with more questions than conclusions," Brown said in an interview with Investigation Discovery. "For example, the police say the body was staged, and if it was, the cross position obviously would correlate to her work as a minister. But, I can't determine if this is something to analyze until I am sure she really was in a cross position and that she didn't end up that way by accident. Sometimes detectives can see things in a way that the perpetrator didn't really have in his mind at all … Let's say we find her body was staged, laid out in the form of a cross. I would still need more details to determine if the guy hated Christians or he just hated this woman and laid her out that way to mock her."

So what about the fact that the victim was nude – does that tell us anything? According to Brown, it actually tells us very little.

"I can't say at this point if the killer had sexually assaulted her, removed her clothes to destroy evidence, or just wanted to own a nice religious frock," she said.

In regard to the victim's post-mortem wounds, Brown says those too are in question.

"These wounds could be post-mortem or they could be ante-mortem [made just before death]. The person who wrote [the report] didn't analyze the wounds properly. They could be perimortem, meaning happening at the time of death and getting us a bit confused. When the wounds occurred does make a difference in determining what kind of character we are dealing with … If the slash wounds are post-mortem, this shows a level of rage, a 'ha-ha, I did you in and I can destroy you even more after death. You can't stop me.' But what does the rage come from? Did she tick the killer off the week before? Or did she just make him mad fighting off a rape or robbery?"

In an effort to catch the killer, Brown says that it is of the utmost importance to look at the victim's lifestyle, personal and business relationships and her daily routine.

"Victimology must be done," Brown said. "Who is this pastor? Who does she know? What is her routine? Who came to her church? Did she carry money? Did she help drug users and homeless men? What kind of people were in the area and who did she serve?"

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Brown says the lack of information makes it impossible to speculate on a motive. There are too many variables to consider.

• Was this a serial killer who raped the pastor and attempted to destroy forensic evidence?
• Was it a crackhead looking for money?
• Was it someone angry with Pastor Daniels?
• Was it someone angry with the Christian church?
• Was it someone Pastor Daniels was related to or in a relationship with who staged it to look like a stranger homicide?
• Was it a combination of any of the above?

"The woman was alone in the building, an easy target," Brown said. "Why someone targeted her we won't be able to figure out until we have much more information. Personally, I don't think pastors of churches in the area need to worry, even though the police had a meeting with them. This isn't a Hollywood film, and serial killers don't tend to target groups like that. More likely, the woman herself – Christian pastor or not – was targeted. She was in that same place, Sunday after Sunday, alone, or with an occasional parishioner (if one could call those who showed up now and then parishioners). Pastor Daniels could have attracted a rapist or a robber or just someone annoyed with her continued efforts to help people. If we learn more about her, we could find out if someone was hanging around the church, or she had some ongoing interaction with a problematic person, or someone she was in a relationship wanted her dead and staged a sort of serial killer crime … Before we jump to some conclusion that a serial killer is out there targeting Christian ministers, we need to find out more."

There is, however, one aspect of the crime that Brown finds of particular interest.

"The most outstanding detail of this crime is the liquid sprayed around the victim," she said. "Police said it was to destroy evidence. I don't know what that liquid was, but I would like to know if it was something found in the building or whether the killer had to bring it along or run out and get it and bring it back. If this is truly liquid that can be used for destroying evidence, some kind of solvent, or a liquid that can be used to start a fire, we are not talking about a homeless guy wandering off the street and fighting with the pastor for a dollar. That type doesn't usually remove clothing, display bodies in odd positions (if her body was staged) and try to destroy evidence."

Brown says the lack of information available to her makes it impossible to profile the killer; however, from what she does know, she warns that a similar murder is always a possibility.

"The man (or woman, though I doubt it would be one) is dangerous and still out there in this rural area of Oklahoma," she said.

Visit The Pat Brown Criminal Profiling Agency

The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation is offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case. Anyone with information is asked to contact the bureau at 1-800-522-8017 or via e-mail at tips@osbi.ok.gov.

Related Links:
Slain Oklahoma pastor, Carol Daniels, was posed in 'crucifix position'
Read the autopsy of slain pastor Carol Daniels (WARNING: graphic)

Photo Credits: Pat Brown: contributed; Carol Daniels: Associated Press

This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission from Discovery Communications. All quotes must include a link back.

Comments

[Angel]

Attn: David Lohr

Mr. Lohr...check this story out. It is from my home town.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32697994/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Thought it may be something that would interest you. Everybody is really freaked out.

[Puzzler]

Thanks for a great piece. Pat Brown, as usual, brings good comments to the case. I noticed in the news reports from the town that at least one business in town had burned down the night before Pastor Daniel's murder. Perhaps someone had committed arson and was either hiding in the church or was planning to commit arson on the church and Pastor Daniels simply arrived at the "wrong time" and became victim of some twisted rage working itself out on the community. The perp may have simply had a flammable solvent on hand if arson was the theme of the day. Maybe intended to set fire to the Pastor, maybe not.

[dfurman]

I am not a Forensic Grad. but common sense tells me:

#1. This was a well-planned personal attack, because the initial wounds were to her head area. I think that maybe Carol inadvertently knew the person who killed her.

#2. Check and recheck the church for fingerprints near the crime scene, because the killer took time to destroy evidence so there must be something there.

#3. Because the killer is trying to hide fingerprints, must mean that they already have a criminal record on file.

#4. Obviously the killer must have had access to chemicals, which may or may not include ones to make Meth. This kind of rage from a human has come from a meth. drug user.

#5. Something tells me that within a 10 to 20 mile range he upset some farmers. Meth users try to steal the needed ingredients to make it.

#6. If a business burned down the night before, it’s the same drug raged killer.

#7. I’m guessing he is high tailing it to the next largest city.

[Kenneth Gentry]

This is very interesting to me because when I was a child the same exact thing happenened to my family preacher. Rev. Liegh Joyner was murdered in Monroe, Louisiana; when I was around ten or eleven years old. I am now thirty- four, by the way. She was killed inside the church, where she would often stay the night, and her body was dicovered in the trunk of her car days later in the swamp. It amazes me to see that I can not find anything about this crime on the internet today. I remember the details of the gruesome crime, and can recall how the murder reshaped my small Southern community.

[Theodora Onken]

After reading about the slaying of Pastor Carol Daniels i cannot help but wonder if it is linked to a death here in Abilene, Texas on January 22, 2010.
A wonderful pastor-Karen Johnson was murdered in much the same way as Carol.

Good luck to you and hope that you will beable to connect all of the dots and perhaps find some answers in regard to Carol Daniels.

Sincerely,
Theodora Onken
Abilene, Texas

[j.stephen.h]

theodora, many are wondering about that...considering pastor johnsons killer (renata monet) lived roughly four hours away and was a woman hating transgendered individual with a said fascination for mutilation, torture and dismemberment of woman. Much of the M.O. is the same but differs in that Monet comitted suicide and didnt attempt to conceal any evidence/no chemicals were used.she was also a satanist and had a wbsite devoted to such malady.

[Theodora Onken]

Yes, J. Stephen H, but Bob Aka Renata was a member of a Christian church in Abilene. Was quite involved in it--would even take the Pastor to lunch at the Olive Garden frequently or other women members frequently and no members of the Pastors church knew about Bobs/Renata's website or his practice of Satanism. Yes, perhaps, the M.O.'s are a bit different but Bob/Renata knew Oklahoma as he lived there with his first wife in the late 60's and a four hour drive is nothing.
The Pastor he killed would never have gone to lunch with him/her or even considered going to his home to privately minister to him had she knew of the monster that lurked within. Yes, the M.O. is a bit different but perhaps, Bob/Renata had reached the end of his/her proverbial rope, no pun intended. To me that does not rule out the possibility of him/her being a serial killer in the past(chemicals or no chemicals) possibly responsible for past similar unsolved deaths staged in a similar manner in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Missouri.

[j.stephen.h]

Sure ma'am, dont get me wrong, there is Very much a Good possibility this individual was a serial killer, AND very much a possibility pastor daniels was one of his/her victims, unfortunately however (aside from possible dna findings or a secret online journal account etc) it's going to be a tought thing to prove with the individual dead.

I like the way your mind works theodora and if you have any information on those past unsolved/cold cases in the aforementioned states I would be Very appreciative if you email them to me. I'm justice_vain@yahoo.com and I J.stephen H. Give Mr. David Lohr my expressed permission to Print my email address on this Site. J.S.H.